Just another question about donation servers?

Dorf said:

I couldn't help but lol @ the 4 heros advertisement thread and didn't want to add to the spam, so I figured it would be fine to ask this question and debate it here.

Everyone seems to be getting hung up on copyright, if I was a server owner who accepted donations, well actually in 4 heroes (I just can't keep mis spelling it - sorry!) SELLING a product, the people I'd be most concerned about is the Tax office. I take it the people running the server are paying tax? Oh, and they did for OS? Because one thing I know about the government, they love their tax, and they are very meticulous about getting every penny of it, even from years ago. Also, anyone making money from the server sure as hell best not be claiming any form of income support as that is added to the list of evasion and fraud. As well as being forced to pay the money back, a prison term may well apply. If you couple this up with the fact that the product is blatant copyright violation as well.. hmm just an interesting few thoughts I had, that I thought I'd share.

One thing we can all be sure of, and that is the Tax office WILL be bothered, and certainly will pursue their case very vigorously. I'm actually surprised that more 'donation' servers haven't had brushes with the Tax office, maybe nobody actually thought or worried about it?

Anyway, just wondering what others think about this, and is there a loophole to get out of paying taxes in this country? :brows:

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The reason the Tax Office don't get involved is because it makes no where near enough for us to have to pay income tax.

As for benefits, thats something the Ben haters club came up with ages ago.

However, there are servers that sell items such a Weapons etc etc that will make far more than FourHeros, so who knows really. But personally I keep an eye on how much we make and there is no where near enough to start worrying yet

Dorf said:

I couldn't help but lol @ the 4 heros advertisement thread and didn't want to add to the spam, so I figured it would be fine to ask this question and debate it here.

Everyone seems to be getting hung up on copyright, if I was a server owner who accepted donations, well actually in 4 heroes (I just can't keep mis spelling it - sorry!) SELLING a product, the people I'd be most concerned about is the Tax office. I take it the people running the server are paying tax? Oh, and they did for OS? Because one thing I know about the government, they love their tax, and they are very meticulous about getting every penny of it, even from years ago. Also, anyone making money from the server sure as hell best not be claiming any form of income support as that is added to the list of evasion and fraud. As well as being forced to pay the money back, a prison term may well apply. If you couple this up with the fact that the product is blatant copyright violation as well.. hmm just an interesting few thoughts I had, that I thought I'd share.

One thing we can all be sure of, and that is the Tax office WILL be bothered, and certainly will pursue their case very vigorously. I'm actually surprised that more 'donation' servers haven't had brushes with the Tax office, maybe nobody actually thought or worried about it?

Anyway, just wondering what others think about this, and is there a loophole to get out of paying taxes in this country? :brows:

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Your wasting your time trying to explain this to be honest, most of the replies will say your full of crap and the government is not bothered LoL

Yea Right!!!!! They are fining people for not declaring money they have made from car boot sales and selling on EBAY but they won't be concerned with a private server making £100's a week selling exp pots etc...........

I also tried to enlighten a certain few on here about the perils of dodging the Tax Man and was willing to explain how simple and easy it is to keep things above board without actually having to pay anything ( or very little ) but got flamed by the usual motley crew.

The copyright issue is also quite an easy hurdle if you get the right advice before you jump in head first, there are loopholes galore and all it takes is someone with a bit of common sense to exploit them.

What some people don't realise is that PayPal and other money handling companies have a legal responsibility to keep records of ALL transactions for a period of 7 years. Any server owner that comes under investigation will find it very hard to wiggle out of it by saying " I hardly make anything ". The Taxman also charges interest on money he feels is owed and like you said, the penalty for non payment is Prison. :agree:

There seems to be a common misconception that a certain amount of cash has to be made before you have to worry about it, but in reality taking one pound for a product or service and not declaring it is an offence.

Good luck though to the people who think that they are immune to it, but god help you if someone is malicious enough to report it to HM revenue & customs.


@ yes LoL at "Heros" . They just won't admit they spelt it wrong and messed up, some even make themselves look even stupider and send links to dictionary's thinking it shows that that is the correct spelling when in fact it is showing the opposite LoL. God love them !

I know how to pay as little as possible, but thanks for your concern

Dorf and Leng both have the same join date and post with a similar typing pattern, so I'm guessing they are either friends or the same person. In the 6 years that I have been here I have never seen any one individual become so worked up by a server, to an extent where they feel it necessary to post legal threats on many occasions.

There are 5/6 (I think?) people on the Four Heros team, most of whom are either attending university or have already graduated, so I'm sure that they are more than capable of researching into the legal aspects of hosting a Mir2 private server with a donation option. You guys seem to think that you are the only people blessed with knowledge of the legal system. Your posts are not constructive, they simply illustrate the fixation and obsession you have developed for the Four Heros team. Move on... please.

Dorf said:

http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/sa/self-emp.htm

The tax office should be notified of any self employed status, regardless of how much money it makes. By law all records must be maintained and the appropriate returns made. At the end of the day, everyone pays tax, true you may be exempt upto £4,500, I think for self-employed it is actually higher than this, however the tax office like to know exactly how much is being made even if it is at a loss!! Failure to notify them can result in fines even jail! Again as I said earlier, I was wondering what server owners did about this, or whether the tax office even knew?

Not stirring anything up, I'm actually interested in the dynamics behind running a server, and how one would go about running one legitimately. I myself had a brush with the tax office where they found I'd been on the wrong tax code for 3 years, they sent me a bill for like 5 grand, and there was nothing I could do about it. Pay it back or jail, not much choice really. It wasn't even my fault, never paid much attention to my payslip and who knows what the tax codes mean? But I still had to pay it back :/

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I help out a server by allowing it to fall under the shelter of my leisure business. It is quite simple to do, I just registered it as a subsidiary to the main company and it takes about an hour a week to enter the in's and out's into the ledger, and the sole employee earns below the threshold of tax and NI.
By the time everything is balanced out there is very little is actually owed to the government.


@ Danboss = is your avatar an actual real life xray of your brain or something? It would seem that way with all of your conspiracy theory's LoL

Nobody is hung up about 4 Heroes, especially not ME!

Simple fact is that I asked Ben very nicely to stop spamming an advert, he said he had every right to do what he was doing and it was ok to ask awkward questions if he felt something was being hidden or the truth not being told. I simply turned the tables on him when i stumbled onto some information, and was lead on to continue posting by the fact Ben was denying the fact, now he has admitted contact was in fact made, I have no further reason to ask those questions.

If you want people to stop spamming 4 Heroes or disliking it, then the simple thing would be to try and get Ben to stop slating everyone else's work and maybe you will be afforded the same courtesy in return.

Leng said:

I help out a server by allowing it to fall under the shelter of my leisure business. It is quite simple to do, I just registered it as a subsidiary to the main company and it takes about an hour a week to enter the in's and out's into the ledger, and the sole employee earns below the threshold of tax and NI.
By the time everything is balanced out there is very little is actually owed to the government.


@ Danboss = is your avatar an actual real life xray of your brain or something? It would seem that way with all of your conspiracy theory's LoL

Nobody is hung up about 4 Heroes, especially not ME!

Simple fact is that I asked Ben very nicely to stop spamming an advert, he said he had every right to do what he was doing and it was ok to ask awkward questions if he felt something was being hidden or the truth not being told. I simply turned the tables on him when i stumbled onto some information, and was lead on to continue posting by the fact Ben was denying the fact, now he has admitted contact was in fact made, I have no further reason to ask those questions.

If you want people to stop spamming 4 Heroes or disliking it, then the simple thing would be to try and get Ben to stop slating everyone else's work and maybe you will be afforded the same courtesy in return.

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How many times do you need to be told.

We never denied being asked to terminate our services, we just never paid attention to it as it wasn't offical.

Nobody cares, Stop posting. You say you hate the spam about 4heroes but your actually contributing to it.

This thread is just going to start arguments, plus im sure servers which use paypal pay tax. Not 100% sure but I think I remember reading on there that every transaction is taxed.

danboss said:

Dorf and Leng both have the same join date and post with a similar typing pattern

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Same date (month)? Yes. Similar typing pattern? Not at all, anyone with a decent understanding of spelling/grammar will be able to tell you either he's putting a lot of effort in to making certain mistakes from one account and others on the other, or they're two different people. The only real similarity is they both have a decent grasp of the English language and both also seem to know a fair bit about Law/Tax.

In regards to a 'tax' on PayPal, that's their fee, that's not "Tax" like we're discussing atm.

Azura said:

Nobody cares, Stop posting. You say you hate the spam about 4heroes but your actually contributing to it.

This thread is just going to start arguments, plus im sure servers which use paypal pay tax. Not 100% sure but I think I remember reading on there that every transaction is taxed.

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was gonna say the same thing lol

Dorf said:

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Your post was directed at the 4H team. The main paragraph is quite threatening in particular (the phrase 'sure as hell best not be' illustrates this).

Dorf said:

well actually in 4 heroes (I just can't keep mis spelling it - sorry!) SELLING a product, the people I'd be most concerned about is the Tax office. I take it the people running the server are paying tax? Oh, and they did for OS? Because one thing I know about the government, they love their tax, and they are very meticulous about getting every penny of it, even from years ago. Also, anyone making money from the server sure as hell best not be claiming any form of income support as that is added to the list of evasion and fraud. As well as being forced to pay the money back, a prison term may well apply. If you couple this up with the fact that the product is blatant copyright violation as well..

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Are you sure that this thread isn't all about your disapproval of the manner in which 4H operates? You appear to have the same agenda as Leng.

I'm honestly interested in the main thing that was brought up, Tax in regards to servers that have donations set up.

Azura, as your knowledge on it was incorrect, I'd of thought you'd be interested too? Could we have this thread cleaned and server arguments left out, while the half-hearted base point (Tax RE donations) could be revived?

Dorf said:

I don't think it does, and to have the tax calculated for you costs a fee I think, this is why I'm asking these questions, to find out what you have to do, to be as above board as possible. I know that the copyright is full of holes, it's just the tax side of things which concerns me. This thread hasn't been made to cause arguements at all, it has been made so as to find out information. If you want to clean up all of the posts of leng and 4heroes fans flame-trading it's fine by me, I just want to find out as much as I can, afterall if I run a server it'll be me in the dock for tax evasion, nobody else.

Hope you appreciate where I'm coming from.

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So you want to run an illigal server and your worried about tax evasion?

Tallos said:

Same date (month)? Yes. Similar typing pattern? Not at all, anyone with a decent understanding of spelling/grammar will be able to tell you either he's putting a lot of effort in to making certain mistakes from one account and others on the other, or they're two different people. The only real similarity is they both have a decent grasp of the English language and both also seem to know a fair bit about Law/Tax.

In regards to a 'tax' on PayPal, that's their fee, that's not "Tax" like we're discussing atm.

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Yes but reasons for deductions? I'm sure paypal pay tax therefore you are too otherwise anything brought/sold using paypal is tax evasion?

Donations and rewards is how most servers do it, you do not have to pay tax and never will this way I would presume because your not forcing people to give you money and the reward the get is purely a gift to say thank you.

Im pretty sure there are loopholes for the tax thing your concerned about I've been running servers for around 4 years and playing them for longer and never have I seen any issues with tax.

Is there actually tax on virtual good?

4hereos system is a shop not donations, so im not sure on that one.

The whole "should virtual goods be taxed?" debate has been a matter of concern for quite a while now, and while I doubt many of us are keen on the idea of giving the government even more money to misuse, at least one person thinks that politicians should get a slice of that downloadable Horse Armor.

"Economic activities in virtual worlds may present an emerging area of tax noncompliance, in part because the IRS has not provided guidance about whether and how taxpayers should report such activities," claims IRS taxpayer advocate Nina Olson. Of course, it's dressed up in a way that makes it attractive to the taxpayer -- with guidelines on how to declare income from virtual goods, you don't run the risk of getting into trouble.

At the very least, this isn't so far being presented as sales tax, but just as an extension of claiming one's own personal income. Since every scrap of cash you make is expected to be reported, it makes sense that the IRS ought to issue guidelines on how you can do that with money made online.

That said, however, slopes can be slippery, and I'm sure this one is covered in soap. I personally feel that sales tax on virtual goods is inevitable in America. It's far too big a cash cow for the government to ignore, and I can see the IRS licking its lips over joining China and Australia when it comes to virtual taxation. It's bound to happen, although we're not all bound to like it.

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